November 2008 Parks Trustees Meeting Coindre Hall

At the November 2008 meeting of the Suffolk County Parks Board of Trustees, many speakers spoke in favor of LI-DOG’s proposal to create a Share the Park Off-leash program at Coindre Hall. The following are some of these statements, which were submitted to the Trustees at that meeting.

• Statement by Jackie Rappel
• Statement by Ralph Verril
• Statement by Ginny Munger Kahn
• Statement by Michael Marcotte
• Video Introduction by Liz Zundel
• Statement by Barbara Buscareno
• Back to Trustees Hearing Story

Statement by Jackie Rappel

Hi, my name is Jackie. I reside in Huntington and have lived here for 3/4 of my life. I’m an attorney, a mother of 6 – 2 children and 3 dogs. My oldest dog is 12 years old and suffers from severe spinal arthritis, I have an 8 year old and a 10 month old – all black labs and lab mix. My kids are 7 and 4, respectively.

I’ve been coming to Coindre Hall to exercise my dogs since my Fred was 3 months old – for over 11 years. I’ve met a variety of really great people here and, most importantly, I’ve met people who introduced me to my husband, which resulted in these wonderful children. In all those years, and I used to come on a daily basis sometimes for hours upon hours at a time, I have never witnessed anything bad by a dog against a person. My children have enjoyed Coindre Hall immensely, from getting their own exercise by playing soccer in the field, to running with the dogs and playing with them, to taking nature walks with our dogs, and checking out bullfrogs in the pond. My children and myself have only wonderful memories of Coindre Hall.

When I told my children I was asked to say a few words here they wondered why I was going to speak. I explained how people don’t want us to use Coindre Hall as an off leash dog area, so it would make it harder to bring Fred, Cinza and Loki to run and play – like Kolby and Kailey do. They didn’t immediately grasp why people would have a problem with what they’ve grown up with at Coindre Hall and they started to cry and say that can’t happen. My children grew up in this park. I walked like a mad woman up and down that hill to try to induce labor. I was there with the dogs when both babies were 2 days old. While they didn’t really have a say, I dragged them there on a daily basis and they learned to walk, run, laugh and play with the dogs. They learned compassion and caring. They never learned, because it has never happened, that a dog can be mean or harassing. I had to teach them that with dogs we encountered on leash on the streets of Huntington. I had to teach them that not all dogs are nice like the ones they’ve encountered at the park and I had to teach them to respect them because they were apt to just run up to any dog they saw on leash.

Bottom line, we love it here and have never had any dog/children/people problems. Thanks to this park my kids are here today, both literally and metaphorically in support of a place they think of as a second home, and our beloved pets’ favorite place. I thank you for your time and patience and your consideration of these issues.

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Statement by Ralph Verrill: A Senior's Perpective

Attorney, retired from active practice 8 yrs ago

After retirement adopted April, a mixed breed Australian cattle dog, and began using West Shore Road dog run (operated by the town of Huntington and now closed) and Coindre Hall. I am one of the “morning crowd” and am usually at the Park between 7 and 8:30 am, most every day, rain or shine, winter, spring, summer and fall. From October through April “dog people” are the only users of the Park during these hours and during the remainder of the time there are very few other visitors there.

Many groups of Suffolk residents can enjoy a beautiful and accessible Park like Coindre Hall; however, it fills a special need for many senior citizens and others who find themselves living alone.

The opportunity, and need, to care for and exercise a companion dog gets many seniors and others living alone out of bed and moving on mornings when it might be difficult for physical or mental health reasons or there is no other real reason to get out of bed.

Of course it’s not just for the dogs. The human friendship that develops around the community of common interest in dogs at the Park goes beyond just caring for the dogs to caring for and forming a support group for the needs of the human companions of the dogs. This is especially evident, I think, with respect to the regular senior users of the Park.

Many of the senior users have mobility problems and would have difficulty walking a dog enough to provide sufficient exercise. The Park gives these persons the opportunity to supervise their dogs as they play with each other and fetch balls etc. without having to walk a great deal.

As we have heard, the Coindre Hall community often represents the principle daily support/social group for many of the seniors who meet there.

It is noted that the seniors who meet at the Park have been residents of Suffolk County for a cumulative total of 100s of years and have paid taxes to Suffolk County every one of those years. Coindre Hall represents more than any senior center or similar facility could offer to many of them.

The users of the Park that I see everyday all have great respect for the beauty of the Park and are scrupulous about keeping it clean. Not just picking up after their dogs but, certainly in the morning, picking up litter left over-night by non-dog users of the Park like beer, liquor and wine bottles (which are sometimes broken), fast food wrappers and scraps, used condoms, and small (usually empty) plastic bags.

The group I meet with in the morning is also very conscious of keeping the people and dog noise to a minimum. Their activity is usually centered near the northeastern end of the rear parking area. Certainly any barking or noise at the Park is no more than I encounter from my neighbors yards when they let their dogs out for a morning run.

From the standpoint of myself and my fellow seniors and other morning users of the Park it offers an opportunity for those who share the common interest of having made a place in their lives and homes for another creature to meet each other, share information on dog care, offer their canine companions an added quality of life through socialization with other dogs (and their owners), all in a beautiful Park setting. For those of the “Morning Crowd” that work and must leave their dogs alone for a good part of the day the morning exercise with other dogs is especially important.

One of the goals of park management has to be the use of park resources for the maximum benefit of those in the community who will use them, day in, day out, over the entire year. Surely the use of Coindre Hall as an off-leash area has proven itself to be such a use by the many, many years (at least a span 40 years beginning when it was known as Puppy Cove) it has naturally been used this way without harm or detriment to the Park or any significant impact on other users. In fact it can easily be demonstrated that the daily use of the Park by dog owners all year round has helped preserve it; deterred illegal and destructive activities; and deterred the geese and other shore birds from roosting there and leaving a residue that would make use of the Park less desirable.

Discontinuing the use of the Park for on and off-leash dog activities would adversely impact the lives of the many Suffolk residents who regularly use the Park. For the good of those residents and the Park itself (and incidentally those who live in the vicinity of the Park) please make it your recommendation to continue on and off leash activities there.

Sincerely,

Ralph Verrill

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Statement by Ginny Munger Kahn

Dear Members of the Suffolk County Parks Board of Trustees:

My name is Ginny Munger Kahn. I am a freelance financial journalist and the president of the Long Island Dog Owners Group. LI-DOG is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit New York corporation whose purpose is to increase access to public parkland by dog owners. Dog owners are among the most dedicated patrons of parkland; yet there are many parks on Long Island where we cannot even step foot with our dogs. For example, we are not allowed in even one park in the Town of Huntington. We know Coindre Hall is a County park, but it is particularly important to many dog owners in Huntington.

What we are trying to do with our proposal to create an off-leash program at Coindre Hall is put structure on what has been an unstructured situation for many years. Coindre Hall has attracted dog owners looking for a place to exercise and socialize their dogs for years. My husband and I first discovered Coindre Hall in 1977 when we moved into the neighborhood and we’ve been coming here with our dogs pretty much ever since. The only exception is when the County stopped mowing the grass and the park became infested with ticks. It was during that time of neglect when the boathouse was burned and seriously vandalized.

As the importance of providing dogs with off-leash exercise and socialization has gained recognition among veterinarians and other experts on canine behavior, dog owners have worked to create official areas for off-leash dogs. This effort has gone on for 10 years at Coindre Hall and today dog owners are the majority users of this large park.

Our presence and the presence of off-leash dogs are a benefit to what has historically been an underused park. We take good care of the park as is evident from the healthy, green lawns and clean grounds here and we are a deterrent to vandalism and the geese that foul lawns all around the harbor.

Despite our efforts to be considerate of other park users, there are nearby residents who do not appreciate our presence in the park. In an effort to respond to these concerns, legislation was passed in 2003 to build a fenced run in the woods at the foot of the property. While we appreciate the County’s efforts to provide an off-leash option for dog owners, the fenced run is not a workable solution. Former Parks Commissioner Ron Foley described it as being “located in the armpit of the property.” The neighbors on Browns Rd. are opposed to its location and dog owners have consistently told us that they will not use the run. After coming here for years and seeing virtually no one else in the park, dog owners cannot be faulted for thinking that being relegated to the woods while the rest of the park remains empty makes no sense.

Two years ago, in an effort to come up with a better alternative, LI-DOG began work on passing a law that would allow for the creation of unfenced off-leash areas. As the bill’s sponsors Leg. Steve Stern, Jon Cooper and Kate Browning noted, the legislation is designed to provide dog owners with an increased opportunity to enjoy the tens of thousands of acres of Suffolk County parkland.

At the time, Suffolk County law was that off-leash activities had to take place within a fenced-in dog run. But, there are plenty of places where off-leash activities are appropriate, yet a fenced run is not feasible. Among those places are large tracts of underused parkland where constructing a fence would be prohibitively expensive, beaches where a fence would ruin the natural beauty, and a park like Coindre Hall where the park’s historic status makes building fences undesirable and problematic.

That legislation, which became known as the Natural Borders Dog Park bill, passed the Suffolk County Legislature 17-1 and in July 2007, County Executive Steve Levy signed the bill into law.

The reason the resolution became known as the Natural Borders Dog Park bill is because it allows for the creation of dog runs that are “bordered by natural boundaries”. What are “natural boundaries”? Generally, features like hedges, heavy brush, steep hills and bodies of water. These natural boundaries serve to keep dogs in a designated area.

The law also allows for the creation of off-leash areas “otherwise segregated” from other park users. What does that mean? The most common way to “otherwise segregate” off-leash areas from other users is to define them by hours of the day or times of the year.

For example, New York City has an off-leash program where dogs are allowed off-leash from dawn until 9 a.m. and from 9 p.m. until the park closes. This program is in place in hundreds of NYC parks including historic Central Park.

Right here on Long Island, in Smithtown, dogs are allowed off-leash on one of the town’s beaches from October until April. That’s an off-leash program that’s in effect at a designated time of year.

In Portland, Oregon, the 26 unfenced off-leash areas there have varying times of operation from seasonal use only to morning until night. One off-leash area in San Diego is not available in June when Little League uses the field.

Our Share the Park campaign at Coindre Hall, which we ran from March until August 2006, was also an off-leash program—unofficial, of course. Dog owners were asked to stay in a designated area of the park on the weekends.

The great advantage of off-leash programs is their responsiveness to other park users, while meeting the needs of dog owners. In fact, I think it helps to think of our proposal not in terms of creating a dog park at Coindre Hall, which implies that the area is reserved for that one use and one use only, but rather in terms of creating an off-leash program at the park. The field we use for off-leash activities during the winter, for example, can be used by other people during the summer when we’ll be in a different designated area of the park.

My colleague Barbara Buscareno will go into more details about our proposal. But, to sum it up, what we’re proposing is a recreational program for dog owners that will allow them to have their dogs off leash in designated areas of the park at designated times of the year and day.

As part of our proposal, we’re advocating the addition of an important new rule to make sure the program works:

Dogs must be under voice and sight control of their owners at all times. Violation of this rule is subject to a fine.

We would make sure this rule is prominently displayed on our website description of the park and discourage dog owners who do not have confidence in their ability to recall their dogs from using the park.

Ultimately, what we’ll accomplish is creating structure in what has been an unstructured situation for years.

When New York City codified its off-leash hours program last year, the Law Dept. concluded that the change would not result in increased liability for the City. In fact, the Dept. said, it would allow the Parks Dept. to better define and regulate areas of the park that allow dogs off-leash.

The same would be true at Coindre Hall.
We believe the benefits of our proposal far outweigh any risks.
The program represents a low-cost, innovative solution to an issue that has bedeviled the park for years—how Coindre Hall can be peaceably shared by all the people who have an interest in the park.

• Neighbors and other park goers will have access to the majority of the park during times of the year when they are most likely to use the park.
• Neighboring homes are not disturbed because off-leash activities take place in the fields at the center of the property
• By avoiding fencing or other permanent modification to the property, the off-leash program does not affect the Historic Status of the property
• The County and Town avoid unnecessary expense. The costs of the program are minimal—a few signs, some trashcans and regular maintenance are all that is needed.
• Finally, dog owners will be able to exercise and socialize their dogs off-leash, without the threat of fines and without being herded into a fenced run along Browns Rd.

We urge the Trustees to favorably recommend the proposal to the Suffolk County Parks Commissioner and the Parks Department.

Thank you for your consideration.

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Statement by Michael Marcotte

Dear Trustees,

I’m writing this statement because I am unable to attend the hearing for LI-DOG’s proposal for an off-leash program at Coindre Hall. As the person who researched, developed, and oversaw the program during the spring and summer months that we ran it in 2006, I feel that I have valuable input to submit for your consideration.

The idea for the “Share the Park” program came about during our search for a way to address one of the key issues that we have faced at Coindre Hall: those who don’t appreciate dogs in close proximity to them. Dog owners have used the park for many years, and have come to care for and love the park deeply for the sense of community it brings to them. We felt it would be profoundly unfair to have this exceptionally dedicated user group forced out just because of a relative few who are uncomfortable with the presence of dogs.

With this in mind I started researching dog parks across the country. During my research I found out that there are many places in the United States that have unfenced off-leash areas. In some situations the entire parks are off-leash areas, such as Point Isabel in California where they simply post signs letting people know that they may encounter dogs running off-leash. Others have designated areas that dog owners must keep their dogs within. Examples of these can be found in places like Portland, Oregon where they have 26 unfenced off-leash areas as well as public parks in San Francisco, Virginia, and Connecticut.

The idea of a designated off-leash area sounded like an ideal solution for Coindre Hall but the question remained; would it work? Would the dogs actually stay within the defined boundaries of the designated area? The answer to that question surpassed even our wildest expectations.

What we found was that dog owners who had good voice control of their dogs were able to easily keep them within the designated area. The other dogs tended to stay with their owners and the dogs that were under good voice control. New people who arrived and were unfamiliar with our program saw the temporary signs we’d posted, all the dogs in one area of the park, and simply accepted the situation and walked over to join the rest of the dog owners. The program worked better than we could have dreamed from the first day we ran it. I suspect these factors are exactly why unfenced off-leash areas have been so successful in other parks throughout the United States.

During the five months that we ran the program I was there for approximately five hours every Saturday and Sunday to oversee the program and observe how it well it was working. During that time I saw two weddings held with wedding photos being taken on the grounds with the view of the harbor in the background. The bridal parties were not bothered by dogs and dogs stayed within the designated areas while the photos were being taken. I also witnessed one of the teams from a youth soccer group scheduled to play in the gym practice across the field. I thought that if anything would entice dogs to leave the designated area it would be the sight of boys kicking a ball around. One dog did start to head in their direction but the owner called him back and the boys continued to practice for the next half-hour.

While we were unable to continue the program because we were told that our temporary signs could no longer be posted, the five months that we were able to run it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that such a program could indeed work at Coindre Hall. All it would require is proper signage, the consent of the dog owners which has already been granted, and the same open mindedness, wisdom, and consideration for dog owners who love and deeply care for their park that has been demonstrated by park managers in other communities throughout the United States.

Sincerely,

Michael Marcotte

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Statement by Liz Zundel

Hi, my name is Liz Zundel. I’m a Registered Nurse and I live in Northport. In the midst of a number of life changing events in early 2007 I and Maggie, my dog and favorite companion, began coming to Coindre Hall seeking a new sense of community for both of us. Three months later, having found that community, I was fortunate enough to meet Michael Marcotte and his best friend, Raven. In an incredibly short amount of time we both realized that we would spend our lives together. We are now a pack of four. I am more grateful than I can possibly express, not only for Mike and Raven, but for the friends-for-life I’ve met here.

We of LI-DOG understand that the concept of an off-leash program that doesn’t incorporate fences is difficult to grasp unless you’ve actually seen it for yourself, so we’d like to show you this brief video. We thought it would be helpful for you to see for yourselves just how well such a program can work.

Michael should be the one introducing this video as he came up with the idea in March 2006 of asking dog owners to keep their off-leash dogs in a designated area of the park. The goal was to see if we could make a designated area really work.

What we found was the designated area worked better than we could have ever imagined. Dog owners who had good voice control of their dogs were able to easily keep them within the designated area. The other dogs tended to stay with their owners and the dogs that were under good voice control. New people who arrived and were unfamiliar with our program saw the temporary signs we’d posted, all the dogs in one area of the park, and simply accepted the situation and walked over to join the rest of the dog owners. The program worked better than we could have dreamed from the first day we ran it. Michael suspects that these factors explain why unfenced off-leash areas have been so successful in other parks throughout the United States.

So without further ado, let’s watch the tape. Thank you so much for your time.

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Statement by Barbara Buscareno

My name is Barbara Buscareno. I have been involved with the effort to legalize an off leash program at Coindre Hall since March 1998. It was when I got my first Irish Setter and started to look for places to let him exercise that I was hit with the reality of that there is almost no place to go - on or off leash in any publicly owned parkland.

I also have been a volunteer with the League for Animal Protection in Huntington for the last 27 years. Over that time I have sadly listened to many people say, as they turned their dogs over to the Huntington dog shelter that their dogs just had too much energy, and needed too much of their time. Years ago dogs ran loose - they exercised and socialized on their own. Thankfully that doesn’t happen much any more. The surprising result of more responsible dog ownership however, has been dogs sequestered in back yards with limited exercise and almost no socialization. One of the key points that NYC realized from their off leash program was the dramatic decrease in the number of dog bites as dogs had the opportunity to get adequate exercise and socialization. Dog owners make up at least 48% of Suffolk County’s population. There are more people now who have dogs than people with children under the age of 18. However since we are relative latecomers in the competition for the use of public parkland we are still a greatly underserved group of park users.

Coindre Hall has been “ground zero” for our effort to get greater access to publicly owned parkland. It has been on wedding websites and people have come a great distance to let their dogs run loose here. A significant part of our effort has been to get more places for dog owners to go so this place can go back to the place used mostly by us local residents. In the last 10 years we have worked with 6 parks commissioners, 2 legislators and 2 county executives – gotten 4 pieces of legislation passed and now have put forth a proposal that we believe takes in account all of the other parties who also have an interest in Coindre Hall.

I know that you all received a copy of our proposal so I would like to review it and explain how we see it working for all who have an interest here.

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